Oct 16-Mathew DiBiase, Sports, Pope John Paul II, Barry Corbin, BTO, Suzanne Somers, Tim Robbins, Wilson Phillips

0:19 Hello everybody. I am Jeff and welcome to History and Factoids About Today. Today's October the 16th. I hope you are ready to do some sports talk today, especially basketball. My co-host here has a new book out called Men in the Huddle, pro basketball's greatest coaches of all time. Matthew, why don't you let everybody know about yourself? Thanks for having me on, Jeff. Yeah. I live and work in Philadelphia. I've published six sports history books. including my latest, Men in the Huddle. I came out with a baseball book, Patriarchs of the Dugout, Baseball's Greatest Managers. That also came out earlier this year. My first two books, Bench Bosses, the NHL's Coaching Elite, and The Art of the Dealers, the NHL's Greatest General Managers Deal with NHL Hockey.

1:09 My third book, Lords of the Grid, Iron College Football's Greatest Coaches. uh, reveals the 50 greatest division one, a college football coaches of all time. And my fourth book, Lords of the grid, iron two pro football's greatest coaches reveals who are the 50 greatest NFL head coaches of all time as determined, but you're using a metrical rating system devised by myself. You know, it's kind of interesting because, um, when I was going through your, your latest one on the basketball coaches and everything, you know, it starts off. It's like you, you talk about your rating system and you think, Oh, this is going to be like a, uh, class project book or something. And like, and they're really interesting. They are history and it's, it's really, it's really fun.

1:50 Thank you. Yeah. I mean, yes, I use the three standard metrical system. The first one, career value, measures the quantity of a coach's success. The middle column, the BQ, measures the coach's best five consecutive seasons. Basically, your ability to be dynastic. Think about Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, Pat Riley during showtime, Greg Popovich, etc., And the third standard, the B5 value measures a coach's best five seasons using my rating system, which is based on winning percentages. The higher your team's winning percentages in a given season, the more points they earn. Also, they earn extra points for appearing in the playoffs, winning your divisional title, appearing in the NBA finals, and of course, the ultimate prize, winning the NBA title and all that. But it's not just about the NBA. It also discusses the NBA's predecessor leagues, the NBL, which existed from 1937 to 1949, and the BAA, which was founded in 1946. And then in 1949, the two leagues merged to create the modern present-day NBA. And also the NBA's rival leagues, the ABL, which existed in the early 60s, and the ABA, where you get your Denver Nuggets from, you know, from 67 to 76. You know, they're featured too. So it literally covers 89 years of professional basketball. And it reflected not just this present season,

3:20 but up to the 25-26 season, which ended, you know, past summer. So you're in Philly, right? Yes, I live in Philly. Go Sixers. I was going to say, you probably have some pretty high expectations this year, huh? Well, when you get LeBron James, the expectations, hopefully everybody stays healthy and then they can make a difference in all that. I mean, for like Nick Nurse, he's not part of my top 50, but he's very close to it. Let's see, where do I have him? I think, let's see where I have him. I've got Nick Nurse rated 55th of all time, but if the Sixers win a championship, which would be a second championship, I think he could crack into the top 50 if I updated it, you know, for next year and all of that. So, We'll see how it goes. We'll see. Yeah.

4:09 My nuggets, everybody's kind of disappointed with them. They won that championship a couple of years ago and then they haven't done anything since. Yeah. I mean, Michael Malone, he basically exhausted, he exhausted himself with Denver. Now he's, you know, he's coaching a university in North Carolina and all that, you know, uh, So it just he wore out his welcome and all that. So in a sense, Denver has to reconstitute itself under Jeff Adelman. Actually, I feature his father, Rick Adelman, in the book. His father's featured there. Yeah. All right. Well, we're going to talk about this throughout. It's like typical sports talk. All right. You know what? We're going to we're going to celebrate sports today. Coincidentally, today is National Sports Day. That's right, with baseball playoffs going on, football hitting its stride on every level. Hockey, basketball starting. Yeah, it's a nice, great time of year for sports. You know what? It's also nice enough to go outside and play 18 holes of golf. So whether you want to root for your favorite team or go play your favorite sport, just enjoy National Sports Day. Do you have a favorite sport?

5:32 I'm You know, I not really. I mean, I just I cover it all as a historian. I take notes, you know, for a future book projects like, you know, like I pay attention to like tennis, you know, because I want next sometime next decade. I want to write a book about the greatest tennis players, bail and female tennis players of all time. I'll follow the golf thing during the Grand Slam tournaments, you know, from April to July because I want to do a future book project like the 50 Greatest Golfers and how they fared in Grand Slam competition. So I do it in terms of taking notes. Don't laugh. I even follow Premier League soccer, you know, noting their results because hopefully another future book project, the 10 greatest Premier League soccer managers of all time.

6:24 So since I do it from a professional standpoint, you know, for like collecting information and fodder for future book projects, I'm not really mad and passionate. I mean, I root for the Eagles and all that, but I'm not quote unquote fanatical about it. You won't see me in the stands with my face painted, anything of that nature and all that. I just, I do it from afar, from a more detached point of view, Jeff. Do you consider NASCAR a sport? Uh, nah, I mean, I haven't seen a NASCAR race. My older brother, Frank, is a NASCAR fanatic. He lives very close to Daytona Beach. He was always a NASCAR nut, but not me. No, no, no, no.

7:08 I'm kind of torn. I don't think it is, except I think anybody can just hold their pee for five hours in a car. That's pretty... pretty tough. To do yeah i mean you know i mean i think it's past its heyday i mean during the 80s and 90s when you really had nascar nation that was a heady time you know for watching nascar and all that but now it just it isn't what it used to be i know my brother frank he he would he bemoan he has bemoaned the present day changes you know and the way they're recognizing champions these days he has bemoaned it he misses the old. Days right when that when you trade paint and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just, I don't know. I just know.

7:49 So I've never was much for a NASCAR and all that. No, no. So in the bat greatest basketball coaches of all time, you surprised at all. No, pretty much the top five were pretty predictable and all that. Though I have to say this about Riley and Popovich. If my book had come out like five years earlier, then I would have had Greg Popovich as number three instead of number four. But because his last four or five seasons at San Antonio Spurs really you know, had bad, you know, suffered bad losing seasons that cost them in the career value category. So you actually dropped down a notch and all of that.

8:31 You know, it's as interesting about the book because it's basically when you're drinking beer and debating sports and all that kind of stuff, you know, it's just all opinion. When you put it on paper, it's like, oh, well, he could have been, but he stayed too long. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes that happens. Some coaches do lose value. Let's see. Edelman lost points off his value because he was coaching the Kings or the Timberwolves. That cost him points off his value. Flip Sanders, he lost points off his value when he was coaching the Washington Wizards at 20%. that actually reduced him a bit. You know, he lost, sometimes you do that. It just, it hurts you when you take that extra coaching gig too many and all that, it can hurt you.

9:19 When they talk about being a subjective though, like you were talking about now that you have LeBron James that could move the coach up and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Is there any kind of like, I mean, for an argument, they'll say, well, like let's say Jackson, I'll say, well, he had the greatest basketball player of all time for a whole decade, you know? And then he had Kobe and Shaq. So, I mean, that's, You know, they might want to take away from the numbers, but if you just go straight by the numbers, you can't take it away. He did it. He won. Yeah. Well, then guess what? Red Auerbach had Bill Russell. And Russell made all the difference in the world. I mean, throughout all those 13 years from 56 to 69 when the Celtics won 111. The sole constant was Bill Russell for each one of those 13 years. It was Bill Russell.

10:08 He made the difference because before the arrival of Bill Russell, yeah, the Celtics competed in the playoffs, but they never made it to the NBA finals because they had no defense. They had the best offense in the NBA, but their defense was one of the worst. And then they got Bill Russell and he became the Celtics defense and he made all the difference in the world. So of all your coaches, is there like one trait that they all seem to have in common or are they just all different? It's just whatever works for them. For like Jackson an hour back that, cause that's the perimeter break who was truly greater Jackson hour back. It's that it's the psychological aspect. I mean, Jackson, if he had not gotten Michael Jordan on his side, there's no way he could have achieved what he achieved with the Bulls there. He had to make sure that Michael Jordan was on base and be able to play you in the triangle and all that. That he always had MJ's support and all that, which he always got. He always got that. Auerbach, his relationship with Russell. I mean, two immensely proud men. I mean... An ill-timed phrase, an ill-performed game, an ill-timed remark. Either one could have gone at each other's throats because of their intense personalities. And yet, for all those years, for 10 years, the two of them were in this perfect relationship. And that's why they won eight consecutive NBA titles, because each understood each other. And neither one ever made a mistake with the other to cause the other to lose respect for them and all that.

11:38 It's always that psychological tightrope. And both men were brilliant at walking that psychological tightrope with their players. That's cool. All right. We're going to talk about this throughout. Trust me. Okay. Let's see what's going on in entertainment on October the 16th. Let's go back to 2012. Number one album was Babel from Mumford & Sons. Maroon 5 had the number one song with One More Night. Taylor Swift. She had the. Number one country song with we're never. Ever getting back together.

12:49 The number one book was The Casual Vacancy by J.K. Rowling. The top movie was Paranormal Activity 4. Now it's been five years since Kate and Hunter disappeared. Then a suburban family noticed a lot of strange things start happening in that neighborhood when a woman and her weird son move in. Stars Stephen Dunham, Katie Featherstone, and Matt Shively. Now, you were talking about the psychological aspects. Do you think it's a lot harder for coaches nowadays, though, with free agency and salary caps? Well, the NBA, they kind of have a salary cap, but. I mean, yeah, especially now. I mean, if you cannot get your big gun to go along with you, I mean, then you're hopeless. I mean, it's always, you're dealing with your superstars. Can you maintain, can you sell yourself to whoever the big gun is on your team and all that?

13:42 Can you get them to perform on all cylinders? Can you get that guy to be a leader to the others and inspire the others to go along with you? I mean, it's such... It's such a delicate process there. The old days of whip-cracking and all that, like they did in the old NBA days, like Alex Hannum or Slick Leonard. You really can't do that anymore. Even George Carl. He was a whip-cracker, but he couldn't get Denver to win the NBA title. He never won an NBA title. Only once did he ever make it to the NBA finals and all that. Great offense and all that, but Today, there are limits. You have to be able to just get that synergistic emotional link with your resident superstar and get them to perform and also get the other players to fall in line too.

14:36 Yeah, and that might be even tougher than the whip cracking back in the old days. I mean, because now they just, I'm not doing it. It doesn't matter how good a coach you are psychologically. You have to be able to pull that off. I mean, don't laugh. The pro basketball had the reserve clause, just like Major League Baseball did, up to the early to mid-70s. And then finally, it was wiped out and you had limited free agency and all that. But back then, I mean, that's one reason why the Celtics had that great dynasty. Because with that reserve clause, the players couldn't move, and they didn't really want to move because they were winning those extra titles and all that. So basically, you were owned lock, stock, and barrel unless you were traded to another team, as it were, and all that. So it was a different era back then. You could be a whipcracker because you had the whip handed in the situation, and salaries were lower back then.

15:29 I thought we were going to kind of tease your other books, too. Are the greatest coaches in all the sports, do they all kind of have that same trait where they have to be able to walk the psychological line? Is that kind of the main thing? The present day ones, yes. In the NFL, yes. In Major League Baseball, yes. NHL hockey, yes. It's very much a psychological thing. Whereas with Casey Sting or Leo DeRocher, they could be as– or John McGraw, they could be as dictatorial as they ever wanted. It was their team, and they ruled it with an iron fist and all that. Big difference. Okay. This is just, we haven't done this yet, but I was, we were kind of, me and my brother were debating, you know, we agreed with your, your, your basketball coaches and all that kind of stuff. And we were kind of thinking, well, who's the greatest basketball coach of all time? I think it's Wooden.

16:19 For men's college. Actually, you anticipate me because my next book project, which I'm just beginning making my footling, a preliminary work on will be men in the huddle two, men's college basketball's greatest coaches. And that will come out, uh, November, 2029. And I am working on a meth. I perfected a method, you know, which will determine, you know, who were the greatest men's college basketball division one, a college basketball coach. So definitely one's going to be in there. You know, uh, the great names, Rupp, Adolph Rupp, Bobby Knight, Dean Smith, Al McGuire, um, uh, Bill Self, Roy Williams, uh, Coach Hurley out of Connecticut will be featured in the book.

17:06 Nolan Richardson, John Thompson, Jay Wright. That will answer the question, who really are the greatest men's college basketball coaches of all time? Again, using a three-standard system as devised by me and all that. Well, cool. Well, you're a historian, so we're just going to talk about what happened in history on October 16th. We're going to start back in 1384. Jedwiga, she was crowned King of Poland. Poles didn't care that she was a woman. No, they didn't name her Queen because they wanted everybody to know that she had ultimate power over there. She must have done a really good job because she was actually made a saint by the Catholic Church in 1997. 1813, the Battle of Lipzig was fought in Well, now it's Germany.

17:50 It wasn't back then. It was more like Prussian states and that kind of stuff. Well, Napoleon, he lost. That's right. His French army was beaten by the Austrian, Russian, and Prussian Federation they had put together. Now, the French, they were down two to one, men-wise. But Napoleon, he didn't care. He thought he could do it. Well, he was wrong. It pretty much led to Napoleon's downfall. He couldn't recover from that battle. Yeah, yeah. 1859, abolitionist John Brown... He wanted to start a slave revolt. So John, he was a white guy, and he got 22 other white guys, and they went and captured and took over the U.S. Army arsenal in Harpers Ferry, Virginia. A lot of U.S. soldiers and militia, they did counterattack and retook it. Killed 10 of Brown's men. Two of them were his sons. Brown escaped, though, but he was caught by the U.S.

18:35 Army. It was led by Robert E. Lee. Brown, he was then hung. 1901, Booker T. Washington. His family were invited by Teddy Roosevelt and his wife Edith to dine at the White House. They were the first white family to actually eat dinner at the White House. 1916, Margaret Sayre. She opened up the first birth control clinic in the United States. It was in Brooklyn, New York. She wanted to provide abortions for blacks, Jews, Polish, and Italian people. Yeah, Margaret, she was very racist. She thought those people should be eliminated. They changed Margaret's clinic to Planned Parenthood in 1942. In 2020, Planned Parenthood, they said that they did not support Margaret's racist beliefs, so they disavowed their founder. Now, this was believed to be impossible.

19:18 Does it sound hard to make a frosted light bulb? I don't know, man. Go ahead. Well, it was believed it would be impossible that you could not have a light bulb that was frosted on the inside. It just wouldn't work. So, gee, they had hired this young engineer named Marvin Pipkin. Now, kind of like you've been in the workplace, you know how like when the new guy comes on, you kind of like, Jab him a little bit. Well, at least you loose him now. You'll probably get in trouble by HR, but he used to have fun. So anyway, as a practical joke, they told Marvin his first assignment was to make a frosted light bulb. Well, today in 1928, Marvin gave his supervisor the first light bulb that was frosted on the inside. Made Christmas a lot funner. All right. 1946, 10 Nazi leaders, they were hung for war crimes when they were found guilty in the Nuremberg trials. Now, most of the big names, they'd already committed suicide by then. 1978, Polish Cardinal Karol Wojtyla.

20:10 He was elected Pope. He took the name Pope John Paul II. Now, he was the first non-Italian Pope since 1523. Okay. Do you like doing those here's Waldo puzzles? I don't think they're as popular now as they were in like the 90s. No. I actually missed the date on October 16th. Also, 1969, Mets won the World Series. Hey, there. Yeah, that was pretty good, man. That was a great one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Miracle Mets, October 16th, 69. Wow. Sadly, I was alive. Yeah, I was six years old. All right. Well, and here's Waldo. Now, if you don't know Waldo, I think you have to know Waldo. Anyway, 1992, it came out, and Waldo was really big at that time.

21:00 Made huge news all over the place. People had a lot of fun looking for Waldo that time. There was a topless female sunbather in it. Here's a Waldo thing. Not like today. Beautiful. Yeah. Okay. All right. So when you look at like football, and I guess you can be a little more hardcore than basketball, wouldn't you say hands on? Oh, yeah. Much more about NFL football than basketball and all that. I tell you this, the Eagles with that loss yesterday to Jacksonville, it would not surprise me if Nick Sirianni gets the ax at the end of the season, especially if they fail to make the playoffs or if they go in the wildcard round. I think Sirianni is going to get the ax. I think the fact that they're two and three now, the Eagles are going retrograde.

21:46 They're not progressing. They're regressing. I mean, The offense, I think there's a disconnect. Either Sirianni has lost control, has lost the moral support of the team, or else Jalen Hurts just doesn't believe in this new, very raw and experienced offensive coordinator. But I think the Eagles, they're going retrograde. And unless they turn around and do a miraculous ending, I think Nick Sirianni is going to get fired at the end of the season. That's my feeling as an Eagles fan. Do you think that Andy Reid could have ever... done any better than he did with the Eagles? Or did he? No, he did what he could. What's amazing is that when he moved to Kansas city, he absolutely, uh, actually he literally got a second life. I mean, you would think he would be an exhausted volcano, but the fact that he got Patrick Mahomes, who is still the greatest active quarterback right now, the fact that he came within an age of doing what never has been ever done in NFL history, uh, three-peating as a Super Bowl champion.

22:47 I mean, he lost to the Eagles. That's great. But the fact that he was in a position to actually try to win a third straight Super Bowl, that is an incredible NFL coaching achievement because no one has ever won three consecutive Super Bowls. No head coach has ever done that. And that's amazing. And the fact is Casey has gotten his groove back after a bad previous season. So it's going to be interesting to see if, you know, if Travis Kelsey is able to retire as a super bowl champion and then, you know, be Taylor Swift's, you know, a significant other, you know, for happily ever after and all that. No, I'll give Andy Creed, Andy Reed and Mahoma all the credit they are, but being a Bronco fan.

23:30 Yeah. I haven't really enjoyed the last decade. Oh, I know. I know, but it's, it's going to be interesting. It's going to be interesting. But I think with the Eagles, yeah, if they don't get, if they don't turn it around, and sweep the rest of the season, Sirianni's gone. He's gone. So I'm assuming you're a Flyers fan? Yeah, but not fanatical about it. I mean, yeah, right now the Flyers, they're crappy too, and it's disgusting. I mean, they haven't won a cup since 1975. It's pathetic, and it's just, I'm just basically disgusted and all that. Just very disgusted. Hockey coaches really, basically, unless you're a big hockey fan, you really don't know any hockey coaches. I mean, the average fan out there.

24:20 But I'll tell you, Jared Bednar with the Avalanche, though, he's part of my top 50 right now. I mean, he's been moving up quite steadily up the charts with the way he's been coaching the Avalanche there. I don't have my chart with me, but I think he's up there in the top 50. 30, 35 or something like that. Moving steadily up the charts with each successive season. I mean, he's a, he's a great one there. According to my calculations, Jeff, very much so. Well, that story was so amazing because we had Patrick Waugh, who was a legendary anyway, he was the coach and he quit right before the season. Yeah. So they had this guy named Jared Bednar. And I remember listening to him on sports talk and they were saying, who are you? Well, my parents are helping me move and all this kind of stuff. And, Nobody knew who the heck he was, and then, man.

25:11 But Colorado's got great– yeah, Joe Saka, before he stepped down after they won their cup– He helped with the rebuilding process. They were getting they were drafting these quality kids. They were making getting the key free agent signings and making key trades and all that. And now his successor, you know, they're both doing they're doing magnificent work, getting those those talents. So Bednar can work his miracles as a head coach there. So it's very much a collaborative process there. So has it really changed a lot over the years where now the GM and the coach have to really be in sync? Or like in the old days, the coach is pretty much the GM, right? It's always been that, Jeff. It's always been that way in sports history. I mean, you can have a great coach, but if you've got a GM who's at loggerheads with them, many a great coach have found and have gotten fired simply because they got on the wrong side of a GM. So, no, throughout all sports history, you've got to have that relationship where the GM and the manager are absolutely at one with one another. Because if they're not at one, you're not really going to accomplish anything. So, no. It's not just a present-day thing. That's been a constant throughout all of sports history, all four of the major North American sports, NBA, basketball, NHL, hockey, NFL, football, or Major League Baseball. It's always been that way, Jeff, always.

26:30 That is true, and plus you need a good owner, unlike our Colorado Rockies. Yeah, that too. I mean, yeah, if you've got an owner sufficiently disengaged, I mean, it's like with the great Yankees teams from 49 to 64. You know, the ownership never really– constantly or overtly ever interfered the, you know, George Weiss, you know, from 48 to 60. I mean, he worked hand in glove with Casey Stengel always every year, getting him those talents, you know, and that's why the Yankees were able to sustain that dynasty and all of that under Casey Stengel. Do you think the owner can basically screw the coach over? Like, I don't know, let's just go like a Cuban or a Steinberger or something like that.

27:10 As Steinbrenner, his whole history has been one of constant interference in many ways. He made the Yankees' revival possible, and also he made sure that the Yankees did not become better than they were. It's like Jerry Jones with Dallas. Yeah, he made Dallas great again in the 90s, but guess what? What's the biggest obstacle to them returning back to the Super Bowl? Yeah, it's him. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, he's a classic example, Jerry Jones. It happens. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, you've got to step back, you know, let, let your subordinates do their, let them do their jobs. You know, just all you have to do is cough up the cabbage and pay them salaries and just, unless you're an Al Davis with the Raiders, you know, but even at the end there, Al Davis, you could get, you made mistakes, you made personnel mistakes and all that.

28:01 I mean, He was the best thing that happened to him. And sometimes he could be the worst thing that happened to him too. It can happen. Yeah. You know, lots of times when a team sucks, you know, and every, Oh, we got to fire the coach. They don't understand everything that coach is going through one. He's got to get the players to play. He's got to have a GM and he's got to have ownership support. I mean, there's a lot going on in order for a coach to be successful. Yeah, I mean, what's that rarity of rarity? It's like Belichick at New England, because Kraft basically stepped back and just let Belichick work his miracles and all that, but then finally at the end, even Belichick, you could say, stayed a little bit longer than he should have, especially after he lost Tom Brady at New England and all that.

28:44 Yeah, I'm like most people. I'm not a huge Belichick fan, but I'll give him credit. I mean, being able to sustain that. I mean, granted, he had the Michael Jordan of you know, he had Tom Raider, but still to pull that off for that long. I mean, that was. Yeah. Yeah. Don't laugh if my pro football book had come out in September 2022. But if it had come out two years earlier, like 2020, guess what? Belichick would have been the greatest NFL head coach of all time. But he had a couple of subpar years after the departure of Brady. Guess what? It lowered him down in a couple of key categories. And that's why he's no longer the greatest NFL coach of all time. It's Paul Brown, the late Paul Brown.

29:28 Yeah, I can't argue with that one. I guess if you just think about the greatest, I think it probably, when you hear, obviously we weren't even alive or anything, you hear something like George Halas or something like that. Well, Papa Bear was up there, but even in a way, George Halas kind of overstayed his welcome. I mean, he coached 40 seasons. That'll be a record never be broken in the NFL, 40 seasons. But at the tail end, with the exception of the 63 championship, He was supplanted by Lombardi, just his bare teams. You could say Halas kind of stayed on longer than he really should have, in a sense. And that kind of cost him in a way. I mean, his dynasties got surpassed by Paul Brown's dynasties and by Vince Lombardi's dynasties, too, and Belichick's, too. Yeah.

30:16 Okay, here's one. He's a good coach, and I'm sure he's up there. But have you ever seen a coaching tree out of somebody like Mike Shanahan? Well, Shanahan came out of the Bill Walsh school. He was a great offensive coordinator for Denver and all that, but when he went to San Francisco and was working under Bill Walsh and then later under George Seifert, it was those years at San Francisco that really... altered his coaching philosophy. So when he came back to Denver, that's why he was able, he, those standards he learned under Walsh and Seifert really helped him win those two back-to-back championships for Denver. And I'll tell you, I was so glad to see that happen, Jeff. That was a beautiful thing.

31:01 I was so sick and tired of the NFC constantly winning it and watching Denver win those two back-to-backs. That was a glorious day for me. Watch. I was so happy. for John Elway, for Shanahan, for the people of Denver. That was a moment in time. And you got to thank Shanahan for that because that experience of working in San Francisco really influenced his own head coaching style at Denver there. It made all the difference in the world, Jeff. Do you like the job his boy is doing down there in San Francisco? Those two Super Bowl losses... He could be better. He's still not there yet. He's not there yet. He's got to find that extra element to help him get over that hump and win that Super Bowl ring. He's not there yet. I don't think he's top 50 yet. I have to go to my charts. I think he's very close to the edge. He's close to the edge, but not there yet.

31:57 He had a lot of losing seasons, especially with Houston and all that. What do you think about Gary Kubiak? He did win a Super Bowl with Denver. Again, close to 50. I don't think he's on my 50 yet. I don't have my chart with me, but he was close to it, Kubiak. But I don't think he cracked top 50, according to my calculations. I have to look, Jeff. Sorry about that. I should have gotten my chart out. No, you're perfectly fine. This is just kind of... We don't want the exact one. We want to intrigue these people to go out and buy the books. Yeah, yeah. But no, I don't think Kubiak was top 50, but he's in... not within the 50, but like between 50 and 60, like that Kubiak and all that. Yeah.

32:37 All right. Let's see who was born on October the 16th. No Webster. He was born in Hartford, Connecticut in 1758. Now, before spellcheck, you actually had to go pick up a book and try and figure out how to make sure you spell the word right. It was called the dictionary. First edition of the American dictionary was published by Webster in 1828. Took him almost 40 years to put that together. Now, he didn't want people stealing his idea, so he actually went and really lobbied Congress hard and passed that first copyright law in 1831 that was basically what we based everything on today. No, he was married for eight, He hadn't married and had eight children. He died in 1843 at 84 years old. Now, spell check, I think it's pretty cool, but man, I hate autocorrect. Especially when you're texting, man, that's horrible.

33:43 Yeah. Poet, playwright, Oscar Wilde. He was born in Dublin, Ireland in 1854. By the 1880s, he was, if not the, one of the most popular playwrights in London, England. He was actually pretty popular here in the United States. Now he had married and they had a son and a daughter. Well, in 1886, Oscar, he fell in love with Ross. Ross became his longtime boyfriend. Well, they were found out about. So Oscar had to do two years of hard labor in prison for gross indecency of homosexual activities. After two years of hard labor, yeah, well, his health wasn't very good after that. Then his wife died. He was blackballed from anybody buying any of his writings or anything like that. Turned into an alcoholic. Died in the year 1900 at 46 years old. 15 years later, Ross. He ordered a tomb be built for Oscar's grave. See, Ross's family had a lot of money. That's why Ross didn't go to prison also. But today, Ross and Oscar, they're both entombed in that plot.

34:37 Yeah. Pierre Lachaise Cemetery in Paris, where Jim Morrison's buried, because I visited it in 2006, his grave and all that. It's a beautiful tomb. Don't laugh at Jeff. It's got lipstick traces all over it from people, people from the LBGB2 plus community leave notes on his gravesite because he was, quote unquote, a gay martyr and all of that. Because, you know, he did those two years in Redding Gale, you know, simply because he was gay. Because back then, you know, homosexuality was deemed a crime. In fact, for most, like, England and the United States, I think homosexuality was deemed criminal until, like, the mid-60s when it was, quote-unquote, decriminalized and all that. But, yeah, I saw his grave, you know, in Pierre Lachaise. There's a lot of famous people buried in Pierre Lachaise besides Jim Morrison.

35:28 Why are Jim Morrison's pretty unimpressive? Yeah, buddy. A lot of people go to his grave, man. I've been there twice in 1986, you know, on the 15th anniversary of his death. And then in 2000 and 2005 of there, cause I love the doors, man. One of the reasons why I became an author is because of Jim Morrison. I mean, uh, he inspired me to become a writer. Seriously. Truth. Well, I mean, he considered himself a poet more than he did a musician. Yeah, but still, you know, he inspired me to become a writer. I mean, he, John Lennon, Bob Dylan, you know, Uh, just, uh, Steven Ambrose, Will and Ariel Durant. They, they were my inspirations. Pete Golenbach become a, become a sports author and all that. Yeah.

36:11 So you love writing. I'm taking it. You love history and you just love combining the two of them. That's how you got into this. Yeah. I mean, uh, Jeff, I started writing when I was 17 years old and I, I was a history buff. Like Jeff, when I was 10 years old, I could recite all the world series winners from 1903 to 1973. just anyone could call out a year and I could tell you who won the World Series and all that. So sports history was in my noodle even when I was a little kid. And I began writing, first it was like poetry and song lyrics when I was 17 years old. And then by the mid 80s, I was like an op-ed columnist for my college newspaper. So I was doing like my poor man's imitation of like David Broder or George Will or Walter Lippman from my college paper.

36:57 And then by then and starting in the late 2000s I began this abortive oral history of the NHL's original six era and in the early 2010s it morphed into my first book Bench Boss as the NHL's coaching lead and ever since then I've been totally writing prose and all of that just working on my book projects The Art of the Dealers The Lords of the Grid 1 and 2 Patriarchs of the Dugout and now my latest work here And I've got future book projects down the road. I mean, I've got a timetable. I mean, three years from now will be my seventh book, Men in the Huddle 2, about men's college basketball. Then I want to do 2032, a book on Premier League soccer because that's amongst young kids. I mean, they're really getting into Premier League soccer. Then I want to talk about golf in 2034 and then 2037, talk about tennis. Hopefully, if I live long enough and all that, I hope to live long enough to do it.

37:55 Well, I think your timeline is absolutely perfect for premier soccer. Cause I mean, that extra five years, man, that's going to, the way it's growing, you're going to like get that book right when it starts to really get even. Yeah. I mean, don't laugh, Jeff. 2032 will be the 40th anniversary of premier league's debut, you know, of its existence. So I like tying my book publication releases to anniversaries. It's like, um, Like my best, my pro basketball book, it's technically will be like the 80th anniversary of when the NBA was born, the way they determined it and all of that. And like my men's college basketball book will come out in 2029. That will be the 90th anniversary of March Madness.

38:37 That'd be cool. The first 30 years of March Madness wasn't so big. Don't laugh. I mean, people thought at the time, remember the NIT team, from 38 to 74 was basically a rival to the NCAA tournament. In fact, like the 40s and 50s, there were some coaches, they'd rather win the NIT than win the NCAA tournament. It was far more prestigious. Like Joe Lapchick, he won four NIT titles and all that. I mean, he totally ignored the NCAA tournament. He always went for the NIT. That was him. That was the grail, especially for like those Northeastern coaches in the greater New York area, winning the NIT was always the bigger thing than winning the NCAA tournament. It's only when the tournament expanded in 1974 that the NIT began to decline and fall.

39:25 And now with the expansion, now you're going, what, 76 teams now in the NCAA tournament? I don't even know why they continue the NIT. They might just find a little get rid of it and all that. It's a shell of its former self. But from 38 to 74, the NIT truly meant something. I didn't even realize it still meant something up into the 70s. I thought it was like... I thought it switched over before then. That's why I said 30 years. I thought, well, by the 60s, I think that's when the March Madness probably hit. No, I mean, it was... Don't laugh. Like Al McGuire, he had an invitation for the NCAA tournament in 70, but he didn't like where Marquette was being seated, so he deliberately thumbed his nose at the tournament. He said, no, I'm going to do the NIT. And actually, that led to the NCAA changing the rules. In other words, if you get an invite to the tournament... You cannot turn it down. You can't go to the NIT. You must, you must appear in the tournament and all that. But even in 1970, McGuire thought the NIT was worth more than going to the NCAA tournament. Seriously. Yeah.

40:30 Well, that's pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Actress Angela Lansbury. She was born in London, England in 1925. She acted for 80 years. She won five Tony Awards, nominated for three Oscars. She was nominated for 18 Emmys. I think all of us know her for playing Jessica Fletcher on Murder, She Wrote on TV. She married her second husband in 1949. They had a son and a daughter. He died after 54 years of marriage in 2003. Angela, she died in her sleep in 2022 at 96 years old. Actor Barry Corbin, he's 86. He was born in La Mesa, Texas in 1940. On TV, his biggest show was Northern Exposure. First movie he was in was Urban Cowboy, then War Games, Beer for My Horses, Last Man's Club. He's kind of like, when you look at, you know who he is? He's kind of like a man's man, you know?

41:17 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. He had one child from his first wife, two from his second wife, married his third wife in 2015. Well, if you like the doors, I think you'll probably like this. That was Fred Turner singing for Bachman Turner Overdrive, or BTO if you prefer. Fred's 83. He was born in Winnipeg, Canada. He helped form BTO in 1973. They're actually going out on tour beginning in the beginning of January. Some of their biggest hits are Let It Ride, You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet, Taking Care of Business, Roll On Down the Highway. Now, Fred, he started out in the band called Pink Plum. Well, Neil Young saw him, and he suggested that Fred and Randy Bachman just go do their own thing. And that's how BTO was formed.

42:16 Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, Jeff, you were asking about Jared Bednar. I just checked my charts. Right now, not counting this present season, he's 29th on my all-time list, Jared Bednar. And Kubiak, I got him right 58th in the Pantheon because I rechecked my charts when you went to commercial break. Well, cool. That's good. Way to go, Jared. 29th in the all-time Pantheon, counting last season, okay? We'll see the results of this season. He may move up even further, okay? Well, winning a thing, I think the other thing that everybody's kind of, you know, the abs last year, they were the number one seed and all the playoffs going in. And then they just got smoked in the playoffs. And it's like, oh, man, it can happen.

43:01 You know, you just got to do anything. There are a couple of times when eighth seeds have knocked, like when the LA Kings in 2012, they were an eighth seed. They knocked off the number one seed. They just kept, they were underdogs. They just kept knocking everybody off and sweeping everybody. And then they won their first cup and all that. You know, it was amazing under Daryl Sutter. He just, they played, they got hot at the right time and they just ran that table. So to be a good hockey coach, your number one thing is you need a great goalie. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. You got to have the goaltender all throughout NHL history. If you don't have the goaltender, I mean, one of the reasons why the Flyers went back to back in 74, 75, they got late Bernie Perrant. May God rest his soul. In fact, just like a month or a week, some weeks ago was the one year anniversary of his death, a sad day. He was my favorite Flyer. I mean, he was my, when I was rooting for the Flyers, he was my main man. God rest his soul.

43:58 So is a quarterback that important to a football coach? Yeah, got to have it. It's like Paul Brown. One of the reasons why the Browns appeared in 10 consecutive AAFC and NFL championship games from 46 to 55, they had Otto Graham. And once Otto Graham retired, Paul Brown as a coach of Cleveland was never the same again. Never the same. You know, then basketball, of course, you have to have your big stud, your LeBron, your Kobe, your Michael. You're Bill Russell. You're Kareem. You're Magic Johnson. I mean, the Lakers had Kareem, but when Magic Johnson joined the Lakers in 79, he made all the difference in the world. He was what made Showtime possible, Magic. He and Kareem together, but Magic made it all possible.

44:44 Yeah, well, Denver, they won there pretty much because of the Joker. Yeah, well, you got to have it, man. You got to have it. that key player who makes it on MJ. You got to have, you got to have, you got to have, you got to have the man. You got to have it. The San Antonio with Tom, with Duncan, man, and Parker and Ginobili, but most, it was Duncan. Right. Yeah. But baseball is different though. You can have the stud best picture in the entire planet, but he's only going to do it like every four or five days. I know. I mean, it's like the Yankees dynasty. Yeah. You had Whitey Ford, but you had to have Mickey and Yogi. Mm-hmm. Cause they didn't have those everyday guys in there. Yeah. Actress Suzanne Summers. She was born in San Bruno, California in 1946. She hit big starring on the TV show Three's Company. She played Chrissy Snow. Later on, she starred on Step by Step with Patrick Duffy. Her first movie was American Graffiti. I think you probably remember it. She didn't have any lines in that movie, but she's one of those memorable people. Cause she was that, her whole title was Blonde and the T-Bird.

45:44 That's right. That's right. Told Richard Dreyfuss, I love you. Yeah, that classic moment. She was also in that Dirty Harry movie, I think Magnum 4. She was one of the girls shot to death in that swimming pool with the machine gun and all that. Oh, was she? That was Susan Summers, I think. Now, your book writing is impressive. She wrote 25 books. Oh, wow. And she was an infomercial queen. Posted news for Playboy twice. She had a son from her first husband. She married a second husband in 1977. She died from breast cancer just a couple days before her 77th birthday a couple years ago. Yep, yep. Do you have your favorite sports movies?

46:25 Ooh, favorite sports movies. I would think basketball has one of the best sports movies, at least in my eyes. I love Hoosiers. No, I never saw that movie. No, no. The thing is, Jeff, I have weird tastes in movies. I am not an active moviegoer. It has to really, quote unquote, intrigue me. I think the last sports movie I saw was that movie Big George Foreman, which was not half bad, though it's not on the scale as Will Smith's Ali, which is another great sports movie. But Big George Foreman was a nice, thoughtful motion picture and all that, but Favorite sports movie. Do you remember 30 years ago? Okay, I mean, Bird Reynolds' Longest Yards. That's cute and all that.

47:07 What about Bull Durham? It's okay and all that. I mean, it's up for the taste. I mean, Field of Dreams. I like Field of Dreams better and all that. That's cute and all that. I'm just trying to think. Other favorite sports movies. Oh, shoot. Why don't you go to Bull Durham? Because today is actor Tim Robbins' birthday. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah. He's 68. He was born in West Covina, California. Now, his first starring role in a movie, Howard the Duck. Oh, far out, man. Far out. From Howard the Duck to Bull Durham, Shawshank Redemption, Mission to Mars. He did win an Oscar for Majestic River. He was nominated for an Oscar for Best Director for Dead Man Walking.

47:50 Oh, wow. Okay. He dated actress Susan Sarandon for 20 years, and they had two sons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, he did marry after that. He married a Romanian actress for five years. Oh, wow. Okay. Far out. Yeah. This doesn't compare with The Doors. Wendy Wilson, she's born in Los Angeles. She's 57. Her dad, Brian Wilson, from Beach Boys fame. 1989, Wendy, her sister Carney, and their childhood friend, China Phillips, they formed Wilson Phillips. That first album, 10 million copies, which is a huge big deal for any album if you sell 10 million. Some of their hits are Hold On, Release Me, Impulsive, You're In Love. Now, they still perform sporadically. Wendy, she married in 2002, and they have four sons. Actress Kelly Martin.

48:56 She's 51. She's born in Riverside, California. She got her first acting job when she was seven. She was on an episode of Father Murphy. Then she voiced Daphne in A Pup Called Scooby-Doo. She hit big on the TV show Life Goes On. She did ER for a couple years. And I guess I'd never seen it, but I guess there's a TV series called Mystery Woman Movies. She did those. Now, even though she wasn't a working actress, she graduated from Yale. She married 19 in 1999, and they have two daughters.

49:45 That was John Mayer. He was born in Bridgeport, Connecticut. He's 49 today. Some of the hits are No Such Thing, Your Body is a Wonderland, Waiting on the World to Change, Say. Now, I'm not a huge John Mayer fan. This surprised me. He's actually going to be doing a residency at the Sphere in Las Vegas all April and May. Yeah. So are there any Big name coaches and basketball. Well, let's take any of your books that, you know, they're really famous. But then when you did your analytics and all that kind of stuff, you were surprised how low they actually were. Oh, let's see. Let's see. Like Jerry Sloan, not top 10 and not top 15, according to my calculations. I don't laugh. I actually interviewed the late Jerry Sloan about three, four years before his death. You talk about Gary Cooper in the NBA, a great man and a great interview.

50:41 He was very kind with me, but he had that Gary Cooper-like quality. But one of the problems with Jerry Sloan is lousy playoff luck. I mean, it took him a long time before he could get the Utah Jazz in the NBA Finals. And of course, he never won an NBA title. He had those back-to-back appearances. But before that, I have this term that I invented as a sports historian called a heartbreak coach. That's a coach, he can get his team into the playoffs, but he can't get them into the championship finals. Sloan was a heartbreak coach until finally he snapped his streak when he led Utah to the 97 NBA Finals and all that. And lousy playoff luck. I mean, George Carl was the same way. Again, lousy playoff luck. Only one NBA Finals appearance even though he had 24 playoff appearances and all of that. He could have been better than he was. Red Holtzman, I mean, he won two NBA titles, but he's not even top 25 material. I mean, it was just a very small window when those glory years with the Knicks from 68 to 74. And then after that, He never equaled what he was able to accomplish during that six-year window and all that. He had some mediocre seasons with other teams beforehand, and then he had some mediocre seasons afterwards and all that.

51:56 So not as high as one would expect in my pantheon, okay? Okay, what about a coach who can get teams to the Super Bowl but can't win? What about Dan Reeves? Oh, yeah. What a great tragedy. Very nice, man. I actually interviewed him once a long time ago, but just never the luck. I mean, just 0-4, 3 with Denver, 1 with Atlanta. Marv Levy, what a tragedy. I mean, four consecutive Super Bowl appearances. No one has ever done that. Four straight. One of the greatest coaching feats of all time in NFL history. and all that but just a beautiful man to a great interview uh but it just uh so sad and all that so.

52:38 Sad yeah with raves though those three that you you said that you were so sick of the nfc just dominating and all that yeah raves you have to get all he had was elway that was i know i mean. The thing about denver in the late 80s is that they were not a total package. I mean, that was one thing I learned to win a Superbowl. You've got to have a total package. You don't have it. You have to have the office. You've got to have the defense. You've got to have the special teams. It's, it's, you have to literally every, every quality. I mean, the teams that won the Superbowls, the 49ers, the eighties, they were a total package. Dallas in the early nineties, they were a total package. Uh, the chiefs in the 2020s were a total package with one or two exceptions. Those two Superbowl losses. Um, You got the Miami Dolphins dynasty teams, early seventies. They were a total package, offense, defense, special teams. You, you gotta be a total, you gotta have it. You gotta have it all. The Steelers, the seventies, four Super Bowls in six years. They were a total package, offense and defense and special teams. You gotta have all of it or you get none of it.

53:45 I get kind of confused because John Madden, obviously he was hugely famous as an announcer. People forget that he was a head coach and in the hall of fame, even. What kind of surprises me? He only coached 10 years. Yeah. I mean, but he was high intensity though. He was a, by his own admission in his memoirs, he was a burnout by 10 years. Yeah. He was just, he was just totally burned out. He just, he gave too much of himself and it just, it just totally sapped his strength. Just like Dick Vermeule was, he just, he was a classic burnout case, but also John Madden. And it is the funny thing. He was the first heartbreak coach in NFL history. To those of you watching, my definition of a heartbreak coach at the pro level is if you can get a team to five postseason appearances but never ever make it to the championship finals of whatever your sport is, that makes you a heartbreak coach.

54:37 And John Madden was the very first in NFL history. All those teams with the Oakland Raiders, they crapped out in 69, 70, 72, 73, 74, 75. Finally, in 76, he leads the Raiders to the Super Bowl, thus snapping his heartbreak coaching streak. But he should have been higher than he was. I mean, I don't have him on the top 10. I have him on the top 15 in my pantheon. But if he had been able to get more Super Bowl appearances and win more Super Bowl titles, he would have cracked the top 10. So let's get a little off of history. Let's go right back. Right now, if you were going to have a team and current coaches, who would you want?

55:19 Name a sport. Oh, basketball. I'm sorry. Right now, greatest active coach. I mean, It's Steve Kerr. According to my calculations, he is the greatest active coach in the NBA today at my Pantheon. And if you want to know precisely where he ranks sports fans, just buy my book, Men in the Huddle, Pro Basketball's Greatest Coaches. But he is the greatest active coach in the NBA today, according to my rating system. Can't really disagree. He's got the titles and everything in the ring, so. Yeah. And Eric Spolstra is not that far behind him with Miami. I mean, but not on the same level as Kerr. Uh, I mean, he had those four consecutive NBA finals appearances, but he, you know, he lost, you know, the first one at first and the last one and won the two in between and all of that. But, and he's had some other laws also he's up, uh, he and, um, uh, and, uh, Oh, what's that other guy? Uh, Oh, what's his name? Fred Schaus. The only NBA coach is to lose four NBA finals in NBA history. He and Spolstra and Fred Schaus lost four NBA finals and all that.

56:28 And if he had won a couple of those, he would have ranked even higher in my pantheon. Sure. Oh, man, we could keep talking all day sports. I like that. I'm just grateful you have me on, Jeff. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Okay, and so... we're going to have links to, so you can actually go get definitely the latest one about the greatest coaches in basketball history, but Hey, might as well pick them all up too. I mean, yeah, I mean, don't laugh. Most of my books are groundbreaking works. My first one, a bench boss is the NHL's coaching league. No one had ever done a book at rate rating, evaluating the 50 greatest NHL head coaches using the system. My second book met the art of the dealers, the NHL's greatest general managers are, No one had ever done a book actually rating and evaluating the greatest general managers of the four major North American sports. It's never been done before. My Lords of the Grid are in college football. No one had ever attempted to rate and evaluate Division I-A coaches using this system.

57:30 Mine's the first. And also my present book, A Man in the Huddle. No one had ever attempted to do who are the greatest NBA coaches using a system. Mine's groundbreaking work. It's the first of its kind. And remember, it's going too fast, but remember, Christmas is on the horizon here. So now you kind of know what the sports fan person is. It's always kind of nice when you're in an argument about who the best is and say, hey, there's a metric right here. Yeah, it's right there. And if you don't agree with my conclusions, you still have to use my book as a frame of reference. I have this motto, Jeff, sports history abhors a vacuum. And I have dedicated my literary career to filling those sports history vacuums.

58:16 Awesome. Okay. We're going to have to get off of here. All right. Okay. The quote of the day comes from Marie Antoinette. She was beheaded today in 1793, 37 years old. They do know Marie's last words. Her last words were, pardon me, sir. I did not do it on purpose. She actually stepped on her executioner's foot. Yep. You guys have an awesome day, and we'll talk tomorrow. And our Country Underground Radio artist of the day comes from Tad Out in Phoenix. He wants to hear Royal Wade Kimes' song, Walmart Special. You guys have an awesome day, and we'll talk tomorrow. I was down at Walmart on a Sunday afternoon. I'm buying five quarts of oil, and I had to have a filter too. Well, I heard a pretty voice say, can I help you please? When I turned around my home Right to my knees I found my Walmart special In the checkout line Well I knew her name was Betty It said so on her tag She had the kind of body That would make any man was a nervous wreck. I couldn't find my billboard, couldn't.

59:36 Write a check. I found my Walmart special in the checkout line. I found my Walmart special in the checkout line. She had a. Friendly smile on her pretty blue eyes. Let's pull for a I bet you got mine.