Big Time Adulting’s Caitlin Murray on the Chaos, Guilt & Humor of Modern Motherhood

0:06 It was sort of this, like, trending word on the internet at that time of, like, people restocking their fridge or, like, cleaning their apartments on a Sunday. I just was, like, getting a kick out of, like, that's what people think is adulting. And there I was with two kids, one on the way, one in cancer treatment, doing all the things. I was like, this is fucking adulting. This is... Real adulting. Welcome back to the Running Wine Mom podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Selinsky, aka the Running Wine Mom. Caitlin Murray is the creator of Big Time Adulting, a platform that has built a massive following by saying the things moms are usually too guilty, too overwhelmed, or too sleep deprived to admit out loud. From the chaos of modern parenting to marriage, overstimulation, loneliness, mental load, and the absolute Olympic sport motherhood has become, Caitlin somehow manages to make women laugh while also making them feel deeply seen. So today we're talking about the lie of having it all together, why modern motherhood feels so isolating, the internet's impossible standards for women, and what actually happens when you stop pretending you're fine. So grab your lukewarm coffee, your wine, your laundry pile you've been ignoring for three days.

1:19 No judgment. And let's get into it with Caitlin Murray from Big Time Adulting. Hi, thank you. Delighted to be here. And it's so funny because yesterday I was like, of course, scrolling through stories and someone had posted this video of a woman in a red light mask with a cigarette and I was dying laughing. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's Big Time Adulting about why people are not using the term shithead enough. And I was cracking up at that. So he made me laugh yesterday. And then also your New York, the Bergdorf Goodman story, too. I was laughing at that because I was there a few weeks ago. And the way you were describing it, I'm like, oh, my gosh.

1:59 It's so crazy. I was in the city for a couple of things yesterday. And I was like, you know, I'm going to just like treat myself to do a little walkabout of Bergdorf's. And, you know, anytime you go in there, it's like a visual feast of stuff. But like the absurdity of some of these things, somebody actually sent me a message. They were like, looks like you haven't ever really been to the city before or something like that. And I said, I was like, well, I actually. lived in the city for 10. Years and I go to the city all the time it's still fucking ridiculous you know we now have to take ourselves so seriously but yeah but that was I love to have a little fun with stuff like that yeah.

2:42 I will say I had such a great salad from that cafe though like I still think about it I forget what it was. Called it better it better be good it was. Like a seafood salad or something it was Yeah. Well, I had went because someone said you could like drink around all of the, um, the department stores. So I was like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to go try here. And, uh, but the salad did end up. Being really good. All right. Well, tell us about yourself. Tell us about your platform. How did you get started? Um, for those who probably everyone listening has heard of you, but maybe there's one or two. That has not. Oh yeah. I, I just, I started my Instagram page when I was pregnant with my third and I had at that point, uh, recently kind of left my job or I was like preparing to leave my job because I had one, my oldest child was in treatment for leukemia at the time. I had a middle child toddler and I was pregnant and between like the treatment and my third child coming along, it was just time for me to like I was really still only working part-time after my son had been diagnosed. That's sort of how this all came about. I should sort of start there and say in 2016, my oldest was diagnosed with leukemia.

3:57 And as part of like that whole experience. Of handling what he was going through, what I was going. Through, all of as part of his treat, I was writing these email updates to family and friends. And it was just this sort of really therapeutic thing. Thing for me. To write about what was going on at that time and describe the way I was feeling on these long days at the hospital and the things that I saw and the way that those things made me reflect on life. And I really feel like that being able to write and put stuff down, pen to paper, if you will, at that time was like a real, that was my therapy.

4:41 That was what really helped me get through all of that and process all of the emotions that I was feeling about this horrible thing that we were going through. And I had really discovered how much and started to sort of trust how much I loved to write at that time because I think I always loved to to write, but I had been getting such wonderful, nice feedback from people that had been reading what I wrote. I kind of wrote the way that I. Share, with a lot of rawness and authenticity. At least I hope that's what people get from me. I had had some conversations about potentially doing a book at some point. And I heard that, you know, that you really need like a platform if you ever want to have a book deal. So that's what sort of propelled me into starting this Instagram page. And I was just at this like peak insanity time of my life with being pregnant, having this toddler, having a child, a very sick child in treatment for cancer. And there just was so much going on in everyday life. And I already had had all of these feelings about motherhood prior to what we were going through. It's just that after my son got sick, I felt like I could say anything I really wanted.

5:52 Like I really did not give a flying fuck what anyone thought about the way that I depicted motherhood on Instagram. I had really been in the trenches and I really knew, I feel like I really do know my worth as a mom and to care for a lot less about what sounded like what might be taboo or anything like that, things to say about motherhood. So that's, that's my story and how I got started. And it's all gone to a whole different level from whenever ever things that I have never anticipated happening, happening now, but it's been, yeah, very cool experience for me. Yeah. Did, Did you expect it to get like this big? No, never. No. Yeah.

6:37 I mean, I, I like, I think the idea of anyone having like a million followers or more than a million followers on social media was like this very like unusual, like never going to happen pie in the sky thing. It wasn't even something that I, Like I really didn't think that that would be possible unless you were already famous kind of thing. You know, you see more of that now. I think then when I started, I started my page in 2018, late 2018, the beginning of 2019. And, um, I think with like the arrival of TikTok and like this extreme virality that people experienced in the pandemic and like now you can create content and go viral and get millions of followers, that sort of changed things for people.

7:29 But yeah, that's definitely not something that I thought was going to happen to me. So then how about your book? How did that pan out? It's good. I just, right before we logged on here, I got an email back from my editor. I have like a kind of pretty, pretty final version of my book in my email inbox right now, but it won't publish until January 2027. So there's all this stuff that I guess has to be finalized between then and now. So exciting. So your brand is Big Time Adulting. When did you realize that adulting really wasn't a destination that we arrived to, but it's more of this simulation that we are all just trying to survive?

8:13 I named my. Blog when I was writing about my son and stuff, Big Time Adulting, because I was really just joking, you know, because adulting was sort of this like trending word on the internet at that time of like people restocking their fridge or like cleaning their apartments on a Sunday, you know? And, um, I just was like getting a kick out of like, that's what people think is adulting. And I was there, I was with, you know, two, two kids went on the way, one in cancer treatment, doing all the things. I was like, this is fucking adulting. This is real adulting. Right. Yeah. But yeah, I always like to think like adulting next level, like top tier adulting is like constantly making decisions that are less fun, not fun.

9:02 I know my daughter's always like, I can't wait to be an adult. I'm like, there's some fun things about it. But also the decision fatigue when you then become a mom, too, is just a lot. Yeah. But yes, I love that. I forgot about adulting. Like, as you're saying that, I'm going back to like, yes, I used to use that as well. Oh, adulting. Like, I think that was like when we just got our house and everything. That's funny. So we call this the Running Wine Mom. If you had an official cocktail, what would it be and how aggressively would it need to be shaken? Wow. I don't know if I could say that I have an official cocktail. I really like to.

9:44 It depends on like what I'm eating, what the weather is, what time of year it is. So it ebbs and flows. But I do love to make margaritas and I like it shaken quite. Very hard. We just made margaritas this last weekend and it was like finally, you know. Yeah. it was so nice out yeah yeah um so you give A lot of tips on motherhood. One of the ones that I was looking at was when you're on the verge of a mental breakdown, you exit the room and you strongly consider leaving your family. What is the furthest that you've ever gotten in your head with that escape plan? Are we talking like hotel down the street or new life? No, nowhere, nowhere near that. That's never actually a consideration. No, definitely a joke. But I think it is like metaphorically speaking, good to take a beat sometimes when you're just, there are so many moments, even in a week, depending on what time of the month it is, for God's sake, that I feel like I'm really losing my mind sometimes.

10:44 Like I'm so overwhelmed, so stretched thin on all of the things that I have to do, all the things to think about. And, um, I guess also, like, after having gone through, you know, this life-threatening illness with our son, and it has given me sort of, I think, that perspective of, like, step back, take a beat, what's important. It's not always easy to access that. When you're in a moment of, like, a mentee bee, a meltdown, or, like, something really, but, and those feelings are certainly, like, real and valid, and we are, I think, all, like, on the brink of major burnout at all times, or we already are just like doing a lot of life on autopilot these days. You know, it's like my husband and I talk about it. He was saying not that long ago, something like just almost feels like we're just like doing life all of the time instead of like living life. It's just like, grinding every day all day with all the stuff that has to get done and go on that goes on with with life with kids and it changes at different phases like when my kids were all like babies and toddlers it was that horrible lack of sleep lack of sleep predictability I joke sometimes like when I was in my 20s and going out in New York City partying till four o'clock in the morning and then on a Thursday and getting to my desk by, you know, like 845 on Friday and going on like no sleep.

12:14 I was like, I'm an animal. I can handle a baby. Like how, how? The baby, a baby can't keep up with me, you know? And, um, and then you come to realize like, it's not, there's no, there's no control. Like if you're, you're, you're out a couple of nights or something when you're partying and you're like, you can still sleep in on Sunday, you know, you can get back a little, but it's just the sort of never ending, um, pain, torture of not knowing when and if you're going to sleep. And that's really hard. And then all, like, obviously taking care of your kids and everything else on top of that. Now my kids are a little older. I have that sleep predictability back. Like, for the most part, unless somebody's sick or, like, there are always the random things that pop up.

13:03 Of course. But for the most part, I sleep. But now my days are, like, the weekend is, like, a non-stop freaking sprint through life. You know, the activity schedules and everything like that. So it's just like, go on to the next, next, next, next, next. Like never a time to breathe sometimes. Let's just get through this and then it'll be easier. And it's like, it's not really. We're just continuously. I will say for like any. Of moms that have little littles listening that I do way prefer older kids to the baby toddler phase. It is just amazing.

13:44 So much more pleasant in my opinion, but still it's definitely like, it's a grind. No, I love to hear that because I feel as though so many people who their kids are a little older are like, oh my gosh. I just loved the baby face so much. I love, I wish they were little, but you know, I love to hear when, you know, the excitement of when they do get older. Mine are four and five. So I'm kind of like above the toddler, but not like. In that tween. Their personalities are so fun now. I'm like, I hope when in, you know, five, 10 years, it's the same feeling that I have. I know they'll be a little different, but you know, in a good way, hopefully. Yeah. I'm just like hitting that like tween, early teen phase, my two oldest kids. And, and so far it's like, there's definitely a lot of the girl drama with my, my middle, my daughter, but I'd still, I'll take that all day, every day over like The toddler boredom, the baby boredom, the like stuck, the trapped, the just monotony of everyday life at that point.

14:49 And that's going to kind of lead into my next question, because you've spoken about how deeply lonely motherhood can feel, even when you're never alone. What do you think of that? What do you think is the root of that loneliness for women today? Yeah, I mean, it's so funny. I went through such long, intense periods of isolation due to our situation with my son and not being able to expose him to any germs. And that was. All on the precipice of the pandemic as well. So there were then like three years of mostly feeling pretty isolated with my little children. And then.

15:30 heading into the pandemic was like doubling down on that a little bit. But even before my son got sick, like from the time he was diagnosed when he was three years old, in those first three years, it was really like the height of that feeling of isolation and loneliness being home with the baby. I mean, there's no, there's, there's no feedback, you know, you're just, it's, you're all in your own mind. I was, uh, I was working but part-time, and I was definitely the primary caregiver, and my husband has always worked really long hours up, like, before anyone else in the house is awake, usually, and home after bedtime, often. So I was really solo for those early years, and now still he works like a dog, but it just feels, it just does feel very isolating, and even when you do, you know, go out or something or get out of the house or you're around people or if you have some mom friend that you go for a walk with or meet up at the playground with like there's so many distractions it's hard to really lock in on a conversation with somebody when you have a kid around or when you're in charge of your children and I just think that there's just this like elongated period of living inside of your mind by yourself and that feels like for sure that's tough yeah I know with my daughter, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter March 8th, 2020.

17:01 So like that whole pregnancy, that was my oldest. And it was like in complete isolation, basically, which I was like, okay, maybe this is why I feel this way. And then my son, he was like a summer baby and we were like nonstop back and forth from the shore. And like he, I mean, he was like three weeks old and we're like, we have a toddler, we need to be moving. And to the other part of it, it was like, I can't, I'm doing all of these things and I can't even like figure out what to do with myself. And yeah, even though you're doing stuff all the time, you still feel lonely. So I got I feel like I got two ends of it and it still felt lonely on both ends. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So you built your platform on humor. You have so much humor.

17:41 But obviously, like you said, the story began during a really painful chapter with your son's leukemia diagnosis. How did humor kind of become survival for you during that time? I think it's always. Been like in my arsenal of defense mechanisms you know of coping mechanisms it's such a great gift and a great tool to use when times are hard like there is really that whole if you don't if you don't laugh you'll cry mentality about motherhood so often and um it can be just so absurdly crazy and challenging at times that really borders on that like maniacal like make you laugh because you're.

18:24 Like my God, you know? So I don't think it was like hard for me to access that. I think it was just always there. And one of the things that like helped me keep sane and to be able to share it and then get sort of like that external feedback validation, um, a nut bag on the internet was really awesome, you know? Cause then you're like, I'm not alone in this. And people feel the same way. And they also feel, I think, like there was like a sense of relief all around. Like not just for like. People who saw some of the content, but also for me, you know. Nobody wants to feel... like they're.

19:05 Alone in losing their minds with certain things that they're doing or things that are part of life. It is funny. I mean, you had just mentioned this, like you weren't prepared for the sleep deprivation, the exhaustion, and you had a bunch of friends who already had kids and stuff. I don't think anyone is ever really fully prepared for what motherhood especially. Is going to feel like. And and we're not really told we're like traditionally haven't been really told anything about like how hard it is. I think there was just more of like a rose colored lens surrounding the storytelling and the narratives of motherhood.

19:45 So it it it is really nice to know that. you're not alone in that feeling and that something's not wrong with you and you're not like a defective mother. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I feel, I mean, my platform is much, not as big as, not even close to yours, but I do feel like sometimes when I post stuff that's like real and raw and people are responding and they're like, Oh my gosh, This is happening to me, too. This is happening to me, too. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. OK, this is not abnormal for me to be feeling this way. And so it is. I mean, everything that you're doing is truly touching people to be like, OK, this is not this is not just me. It's like there's that like there's a truth. There's a truth about what is going on. And then there is also just the aspect of being like honest in general about your feelings. So like even if it were not relatable to the masses or to other people or like a validating thing for somebody else to hear, read or see, everybody appreciates genuine like honesty. So it feels nice to hear people kind of like shoot from the hip.

20:54 Right. I agree. So Instagram versus reality. What's the biggest lie the Internet does tell modern mothers? I don't know. I feel like I'm so far removed from what Instagram tells modern mothers or what it makes other moms feel like. I remember when. I was first having kids that Instagram wasn't really a thing at that point, especially not the way that it is now in the way that people really follow influencers or follow tent creators. It was very much more following your friends and family and stuff. there was like that, there was like a Pinterest perfect thing, like where, you know, you were starting to see these images of the way people were having their baby showers, decorating their nurseries, having first birthday parties, like, and that it was all like a theme and color coordinated. And there was just a lot, there was so much more curation to everything. Mm-hmm. I have an older set of followers too, like the grandparent age.

22:28 And I have a newsletter that I write. And it's so funny because those are, that's the generation that will comment and write back to my newsletter postings. I'm like, this makes sense. They like to read and like write part of it. Yeah. It's those women that are like, God, I wish I had somebody saying stuff like this when I was raising my kids because I felt the same way and no one was saying anything like that back then. So there were definitely, there have been pressures on women and mothers, obviously, since before social media and before Pinterest and all of that bullshit. But like, it's fully, I mean, exploded since the dawn of social media and the internet.

23:12 So... I don't know. I don't know if people have like rejected that more now, like young mothers like reject that or if they're still subscribing to like this perfect version of motherhood or what. They have to do. I don't know what the vibe is. I'm getting out of the loop down there. I got to figure it out. I got to find out. Well, I do feel like everything like there's I try to not follow creators that have that like perfect aesthetic because it just does not make me feel good about myself because I don't feel like I have that and I like whatever, you know, I love our house. But I don't have the white everything or the whatever. And what was it? The brown beige and, you know, in all of my my aesthetic. But yeah, it's definitely it's definitely hard with seeing all these curated pictures online that are filtered and you don't know what it is or it's like set up perfectly. You'll see some creators, you know, posting pictures with their kids. And it's really just like a corner of their house that they have perfect. And then the rest of their house is like a mess. And you're like, well, then that's not really what's happening. You're making me feel, you know, a certain way.

24:16 So, yeah, I do. I think it's a mix. I think people are moving away from, you know, the conformity of it. But I think it's definitely still out there to see a lot of it, which is kind of hard. But also, like you said, back, you know, in the 90s and 80s and 70s, 60s, they still had pressure as parents, too. It was just a different kind, I think. Yeah, I think that there was like, it was obviously like a more silenced vibe as well. There was just a lot less acceptance of speaking out against anything motherhood related that wasn't. Yeah. And that's, you know, we feel a lot of guilt as moms as well. We feel guilt when we work. We feel guilt when we don't. We feel it when we lose our patience. Like I always see posts of like, oh, I felt so guilty. I did this with my kid or I didn't do that with my kid or my friend is on vacation right now and she just texted me.

25:04 I feel. like I'm being, you know, I'm guilty that I'm keeping the kids out too late. And I'm like, you're on vacation, like just, you know, enjoy yourself. But what advice would you give those moms who feel like they're failing, like how to give themselves grace? You know, I don't know. I guess like I think that what you're saying is what it is, is that we all feel like that. So that And I think that for some reason, we all think of ourselves as a lesser version than everybody else doing things. Like a lot of people, we just have those insecurities. We're all our own worst, hardest critics. And I think that like one of the things that I like to remind myself is that It doesn't matter what kind of parent you are, but you are the best parent for your kids. You're the person that knows your children the best. You're the one who's been there watching them, observing them. You know their nuances. And to have that as your superpower as a mom is the best thing for your kids. So while we're all like fucking up and failing, at least we all are like the best thing that there is for our own children.

26:23 So true. And then we kind of talked a little bit earlier about just how like, like we're crazy with activities, overscheduling, pressure to optimize childhood as well. Do you think that modern parenting has become a competitive sport? I'm so unengaged in that mentality. I really don't subscribe to that. So maybe it has in some circles, and I'm sure that there are parents that engage in that sort of, we have to be the best at this, or we have to sign up for everything, or I have to volunteer for every single event that ever happens, that kind of thing. That goes along with the whole guilt mentality, and I really try not to subscribe to that, even though I do... end up feeling guilty um about stuff sometimes I think the deeper that I get into family life and like watching my family grow and seeing my kids become the people that they are I'm so much more focused on them as like people than I am about like what other outside stuff is going on and I I've tried to, like, stay true to just, like, trusting my gut in a lot of ways in terms of doing what I feel is best for them and me because I think what's best for you is also definitely what's best for your kids.

27:45 Mm-hmm. Just seeing them become these. Like great kids who I really like and enjoy and respect as people has been, I guess, validation for me that like it's OK to just do things your own way and not have to write it. It is hard, though. Like, there are things, especially with sports, like, there are these mechanisms that are just churning that if you jump into it, it's really difficult not to go all of the way with certain things. Right.

28:28 You either can say no to sports, like, but there is now at this, at this like juncture in, in youth sports, there's no existing. Like rec league anymore. Really? Like after a second or third grade, like that's over. And then it goes to the next level. And that's what the rec, the rec leagues are like abandoned. You sort of forced. Yeah, I know. I'm not looking forward to that. I love sports. I was very involved in sports and I'm just like not quite right. Especially my husband's schedule is also really crazy. So I don't know how I'm already having anxiety about like juggling all of it, you know.

29:10 So I give all the moms out there so much credit for that. Since you've become so internet famous, what's the weirdest part of all of that? Like, are you in Target and people are just coming up to you? Trauma dumping or how do you react to all of that? Sometimes everything. Yeah, that's the weirdest thing. Like when you go around and people recognize you everywhere. Yeah. What do your kids think about it? They're kind of used to it. Um, yeah, it's been happening for a few years now, I'd say. So like they were pretty young when that started. It's not like crazy. It's not like I need like a security guard or anything like that, but usually wherever we go, people will come up and say something, but it's a really nice and brief for the most part. So it's extremely manageable.

29:57 I just, uh, Yeah, but. You do sort of forget that you're no longer just an anonymous face at all times. Right. But luckily, I don't try to pretend to be anything. Yeah. Yeah. You are who you are. No, you know, I'm just thinking it would be so funny. I don't know if you saw all of the like Coachella parodies where they had like people that were I guess a lot of the influencers there had like security at Coachella for like, you know, no real reason. And there was a lot of parodies about that. But I'm just thinking like you should do a parody like that of you in Target with like security and mom's trying to come up to you.

30:40 To talk to you. But yeah, oh my gosh, they were cracking me up. That's hilarious. All right. Let's do a quick round. Whatever comes to the top of your mind for these. What sound or. Noise in your household do you love? Laugh. Laughing. Which one do you absolutely dread? Screaming. If your kids had to describe your parenting style in just one word, what would it be? Strict. Complete the sentence. You know you've officially crossed over into big time adulting when you are genuinely excited about. Going to the dentist. I do get excited about that now. If motherhood had a warning label, what would yours say? Oh, God. I don't know. Don't believe everything you hear.

31:20 And what is one totally random thing that now feels like a luxury as a parent? Sitting down. Well, this conversation was just the breath of fresh air that I feel like a lot of us needed, as you always show on your platform and now through this conversation. But I'm going to leave with one more question. What is your definition of a life well-adulted? Man, I think it's just, like, kind of trying to appreciate a moment a day, you know, where you're actually present for something, whether it's to do with your kids or just staring out the window observing, like... a beautiful tree or a bird or something like that, where you're just there for a minute. With the mind of a mom, it's really hard to stop it and feel present when there is actually just so much to do at all times and so many open tabs. It's really, really hard to turn your mind off. And I think it's actually just really bad for our minds and are in for our memories and for our, our attention spans. And so I think if you can kind of put that into practice to stop for a minute a day to just be, be there wherever, whatever you're doing, um, it builds and helps like to, I'm not very good at it, but

32:54 that's what I'm trying to focus on like more now. Yeah. It's hard. It's really hard. Um, You know, like. Instead of picking up your phone to scroll or check your messages or check your email or whatever it is, like stare at a wall for a couple of minutes, like what, whatever. And it's uncomfortable for a lot of people to do that. But I think the more you practice it, the more, I guess, comfortable it gets. I don't know. I'm still not comfortable in just like complete silence. And yeah, it's hard this day and age with like the distraction of the phone to just even stay in one place for very long. Yeah. Do that. All right. Well, I loved this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

33:36 This was so fun. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So as always, thank you for spending time with us today on The Running Wine Mom. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with a mom who needs to hear it. You can follow me on Instagram at TheRunningWineMom underscore. And Caitlin, where can the listeners find you? Big time adulting. Awesome. And I will link that. Thank you so much for joining us today. Remember, you are strong, you are capable, and you are all amazing. Until next time, keep running, keep sipping, keep laughing, and embracing the joy of motherhood. Cheers, and I'll be back next Tuesday.