Demystifying Plant Medicine for the Burned-Out Mom with Sarah Lynn Thomas

0:00 Okay. I'm just closing all of my other stuff. I sorry. No, you're good. Sorry. All right. I will st welcome back to the Running Mind Mom Podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Selinski, aka The Running Mind Mom. Today's episode is a little different and I'm so here for it. My guest, Sarah Lynn Thomas, is the co-CEO of Behold Retreats. She runs guided plant medicine retreats in Costa Rica, Mexico, and Portugal with Danny Yepez who has they have worked together for nearly to with nearly 2,000 people, including NFL players. And you may have seen them on Netflix Enigma. Now, before anyone panics, this conversation is for the curious mom, the skeptical mom, the burned out mom folding laundry right now, wondering if there's something more.

0:48 We get into what actually what it work sorry. We get into what this work actually is, whether it's safe, what any of it has to do with motherhood, and the one thing you can do tonight Even if you've never set foot in Costa Rica, so let's get into it. Welcome Sarah. thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes, and I loved learning all about your retreat and what you guys do, and I am so excited to hear all about it. Um, but first to start each episode, we have our wine, wine, and win of the week segment. This is where we share our favorite bottle of wine, then about something that's been bothering us and celebrate our recent victories. So grab a glass, take a deep breath, and let's get started.

1:31 So, Sarah, what is your drink or drinking wine of the week? Okay. And I'm gonna make sure I have this right. In this context it's something that I am celebrating, correct? Or is wine in this context? Okay. so s so this is gonna be your drinking wine of the week. Like your drink or if you have like a a special tea that you like, your your drink of the week. We'll get into our complaint and our win next. Got it. Um, so for me, I make a seven ingredient coffee every single morning. If it's on retreat, I supplement coffee for cacao. It was about a year before somebody asked me what are the seven ingredients, which I found wild.

2:11 I would be curious right away. And so it's coffee, coconut milk, acetate de coco. Sorry, I'm used to speaking in Spanish. Um, so that's like um coconut oil and then cinnamon and agave or brown sugar. And then I got to around the sixth one and realized, my gosh, this doesn't have seven ingredients. And so then I had to add love is also one of the ingredients, a little vanilla, and then we're done. Love that. I'm gonna have to try that. Yeah, I'll send it to you. It's delicious. And then for cacao drinkers, you can do the same thing, just cacao over coffee.

2:51 Ooh, all right, I love it. I am always open to a new drink, so I'm excited for that. So now we're gonna go into what is your complaint whine of the week? Yeah. So the one thing that has come up for this week um is people pleasing. Um if you are not gonna do something, just say you're not going to do it. I would rather hear a no than you're going to do it and not do it. And then worst, if you do do it and you really don't want to, 'cause then that's when resentment starts forming. And so that's my wine of the week. People pleasing. the week? Uh great support teams. I have been traveling a lot and communicating on the road with all of our incredible humans on retreat and then people in our our our teams and operations and uh they are not people pleasers.

3:44 They are they say yes when they mean yes, they tell me no if I have a bad idea. And so the the valuable support where I work with humans that are kind and not nice, which I really appreciate. Nice being they tell you what you want to hear and kind being they tell you what you need to hear, which is frequently nice as well. Mm. Yeah. I love that. Um, all right, so let's get into it. So for everyone listening, how would you explain what you do at a dinner party? And I am about to go to my dad's 75th birthday. And so this is a very real um thing that has been on my mind recently. So first I'll talk with how I told my dad for the first time.

4:28 and this is something for everybody that is doing something that is out of the norm, or in some places where people haven't yet defined medicine and drugs. So for my dad, I did not start with what it is and the process. I started with the end result. And so um I have a I used to have a whole lot of pain from nerve damage. And about twice a year my dad would ask me, How is it's in my arm in my hand, how is your arm? And for decades I would say the same, which means it still hurts and I still have some problems with it. And about eight years ago, after a very intense blint medicine journey, it was about the time he asked me and I told him it doesn't hurt anymore.

5:12 And he was so Happy of the results. And so then he said, What did you do? And that was the first time I told him about plant medicine. And so a lot of times, people, if they have made massive changes, like they used to be depressed and now they're not. They used to be anxious to the point that it's debilitating and now they're not. I recommend that people start with end results. And so now that I'm going to be around a table with a whole bunch of people, I even asked my dad. How much of our family would you like to know what I do? I could say health and wellness retreats and then look around and see if anyone's like eyebrows lifted and then have one-on-one conversations. But that's how I go about it.

5:52 Is everybody is different. I am a big believer in planting seeds. And so start off small. If somebody gets a little bit curious, tell them a bit more. And the results is really what is impressive. Anyone that's never had a visionary experience or a psychedelic experience, if you explain that to somebody. You sound crazy, and so I recommend not explaining psychedelic experiences. The to start off, right? Yeah. Um, so my audience is moms in the trenches. They are doing school pickup, meltdowns, mental load. Why should a burned-out mom care about any of this?

6:33 Well, I fundamentally believe that when our cup is full, we are better for ourselves and then better for our partners, better for our kids, better for our community. And if you're also working outside of the home, better in your field. And so for me, this is the take care of yourself. And so we've all been there where we're giving when our cup is full. And that's when things like resentment starts forming, we snap when we don't mean to, and then we are regretful to ourselves, and then we're feeling like we're not good enough. And so this is a a a time where somebody could say, I need to take care of myself.

7:14 I need to take care of my mental health, my emotional health, my spiritual health, if you resonate with that. If you don't, just your own spirit connecting with that. and then we come back and we're better at all of the other things. And we love a whole lot more. Yes. And so plant medicine, it can carry a lot of mystery and let's be honest, a little fear for someone who's maybe never experienced it. So can you walk us through the anatomy of surrender? What actually happens when a person lets go of control? Because for me, I was like thinking about it today and I'm like, my gosh, I could I feel like I would have the opposite result because I'm totally out of con it's out of my control. Like, how would you explain that?

7:54 Like the process of it. Yeah. And first our s I'll start off with there's layers of surrendering, right? And so everyone will surrender to a pr a certain point and get benefits. And if you surrender more, then there's more benefits. And if you surrender more, and so nobody would ever come and not get anywhere. Um because one, we don't just say come to ceremony without preparation. Um when people first contact us, we have a thorough onboarding. We make sure that they're ready. that this is a good fit for them, that we're a good fit for them, that they're a good fit for our group. And then we start the preparation. And even once we get on retreat, we then start talking about, okay, in ceremony, here are the ten things that you can do to start surrendering.

8:41 And then we go to ceremony. And they'll come back out and they go, I remembered one and I forgot nine. Amazing. We're gonna do this again. And so we go through a process of surrendering. And so I'll give an example of um how surrender can be beautiful. Um and it'll first start off with m in my own personal, I was sitting for myself as opposed to sitting of service to help others. I was sitting for myself and in my mind I was going, just surrender, just surrender. And I like, what does that even mean? I was like, you teach this, you know what it means. And I recognized I had flexed every muscle in my body. It wasn't that it was painful. I was just flexing and I was like, how about you just relax?

9:21 And so the first state of surrender is just relaxing. And that's physically, just relax. And then it can go into mentally, just relax, just relax. Um, but we we prepare people thoroughly to go through what does it look like to surrender. And then on the beautiful side of surrender, like the the massive side of surrender, um, right before complete ego death is starting to see, recognizing if we truly let go, what could that look like? Okay. We start seeing masks that we wear coming off. We start seeing layers of ourselves that come off. And there's I've been in ceremony where I'm seeing these layers come off.

10:02 I'm like, okay, I wasn't I wasn't raised in Texas. I didn't go to Texas A I didn't um go into finance. All of these layers, that's not me. And I be was coming becoming more and more one first with everybody in that circle and then with everybody in that town and then with the entire world. And there was even a moment where as I'm having this expanded state of consciousness and surrendering all of the pieces that were me, it was, this place that you're going, my partner is Danny, love of my life. I was like, you don't know Danny in the way that you know him now. And I'm supposed to be letting that go. And I was like, no, I don't want to. And then ayahuasca goes, You're gonna come back in an hour. Just let go.

10:43 Just let go. Go to this space. And so with ayahuasca, it's this conscious, Conscious path of surrendering the ego, and ego not with any negative connotation, just who we are. And we feel that oneness. And then that's where one of the positives of this is we come back and we recognize that you're my sister, you're my brother, we're all here doing the best we can. And so surrender. Yeah. I love that. And so I feel like moms are wired to ask one question first. Is it safe? So obviously you guys are trained, but who would you say no to um if they came in and you're like this just maybe isn't doesn't align with you and ha so that I guess the listeners would know if they're if there's if you're say yes to them, there's been a whole process of why you would have said no for them to not be accepted.

11:41 Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I am quite proud of our team and our organization that we are one of the safest, if not the safest organization out there. And it's for the additional purpose of our ceremonies, we do traditional dare ceremonies and we go in deep. And so everything around that has to be safe. It needs to be safe for the individual that's sitting there. It also needs to be safe for all the individuals around them, and then it needs to be safe for our team. It has to be safe for everybody and f in all of the different layers of that being important. And so people that we wouldn't recommend to come um sit with uh ayahuasca is somebody who for example has uh s certain I mean I guess I'll just say it things like schizophrenia your mind is more open.

12:34 Mm. Right. our minds. As much as we like to think we're open-minded people, our minds have programs and patterns, and so we're we're acknowledging some of those patterns, we're breaking some of those patterns. Somebody with schizophrenia doesn't need a more open mind, they actually need more narrowing of their mind. And so uh visionary medicine would not be beneficial for somebody with schizophrenia. Now, some people come and they might be on medications that are indicative with ayahuasca. And so when that is the case, one, we might recommend a different medicine, such as psilocybin or uh 5MEO DMT, or um we'll work with our medical team and their doctor to taper off medications so that it is safe for them to come.

13:20 And then on site we look at safety again in all the layers, physical safety, mental safety, emotional safety. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's great to that's good to know. And I never thought of it that way. If you do have, you know, something where your mind is already kind of going in different directions, that maybe it wouldn't be the best choice for you. So I love that you guys screen for that. And I think that's really important. Um, I also read that you kind of run two tracks, the healing and expansion. What's the difference and which one do most people think they need maybe versus what they actually need?

14:01 So um I feel like we're about half and half. And when somebody comes in for healing, they are blown away by the amount that they also expand. And when people come in for expansion, they are blown away by saying, I guess there was a bit of work. uh And some people assume that healing is painful and expansive is incredible. Healing doesn't have to be painful, it can still be a beautiful process. it might be very challenging and same with expansion to let go. A lot of expansion is recognizing who you are today. And sometimes that can be challenging. And if especially if you are about to um expand into a being that you're not, we need to see that jump, probably mourn who we are today and start that new programming of who we are becoming.

14:52 And so I would say they come in about half and half and then they they both get um on the same sides. I found that people in corporate life come for expansion and then realize, there's a bit there. There's a bit there that I've been ignoring, swallowing. I've been most of the time men swallow pain and women swallow anger for decades. And so those are the things that they have to look at and confront and let go of. Yeah. And so you're running luxury retreats that are built on indigenous traditions. How do you make sure that this is honoring those traditions and not just kind of extracting from them? Yeah.

15:32 So this is something that we talk about frequently. Um, and Danny, my partner and one of the founders, even started a foundation called Sovereignty Alliance. And this is an organization in where we honor indigenous rights. And so this is a conversation that we have frequently. In fact, two or three weeks ago, within our team, we had the conversation of this medicine is traveling from the Amazon basin. And it is traveling around the world, and that is going to keep happening. And people with a Western mindset is going to receive this medicine that comes from the South. And there's our our medicine teams run traditional retreats. And then our day team, which I'm on the daycare team or the uh the care team during the daytime, I'm kind of that the bridge of translating.

16:20 And so if somebody had a an incredible ceremony, when somebody has an incredible ceremony, I'm there to help them process it. And I am very aware of what is the wisdom of the jungle that needs to come through. Not just the wisdom of the West that makes sense, but what is also the wisdom of the jungle? And so with our team, um, we frequently talk about this. What do we want to make sure that people know um from this southern science, the southern medicine? And then again, our Sovereignty Alliance Foundation to support not just um The first thing that we do is we bring all of the indigenous communities of Costa Rica. We've done this for three now three years now.

17:02 We're on our fourth year planning where um all eight tribes of Costa Rica come together. It was beautiful three years ago. It was the first time some of them had met each other and they share their art, they share their music, they share their food, they share their wisdom. And so this is something that we are highly dedicated to. So thank you for asking. That's yeah, that's so important. I love learning about that and the behind the scenes process because some people might just think, you know, you're just leading with the medicine versus you're leading, you know, with the tradition and the um you you're really invested in it, which is great to know. Um So my next question is going to be about Netflix and Enigma and the NFL guys.

17:46 Um, what was the most surprising thing about guiding elite athletes through this? And do you think that they're more or less open than the rest of us? So I hope that everyone that comes on any type of um plant medicine retreat or just in life, something that I loved about the athletes that came is they legitimately brought their journals everywhere and took notes. And so if any of our old retreat guests are listening in, they're gonna hear me say this about about them. But um the athletes came to every workshop, every meal, every yoga even. And if somebody said something that resonated with them, they wrote it down. And this I also found was pretty fascinating.

18:27 They repeated themselves three times. And at first I thought like, um, like what I was curious the mindset of why somebody would repeat themselves three times. I repeat myself when I think you didn't hear me. They repeat themselves because they're learning. I would see them learning. I would see them memorizing. They would talk about their ceremonies three times, three times. And so um I think this is because they're use they have had coaches since they were kids. And so they're used to taking advice, memorizing it, and they're already used to integrating it. Okay, how do I get better? How do I do it better? And so I think how to do it better, that's probably an athletic stance. I I think that we could have a more open stance of it.

19:07 Um, but that was from their perspective is they're always used to how do I perform, how do I do this? So that's something I loved about the athletes. They were there to learn and and grow. So cool that you guys got to experience that. And um it does make so much sense when you're saying that. Like they're used to having game day, you know, pep talks or, you know, practices or preseason and which is all about learning as well. So they're kind of um, I feel like advanced in the paying attention part of what, you know, the final outcome needs to be, which is pretty cool.

19:48 Yeah. and there's some times where we're talking about preparing or processing or integrating and not that I think I'm brilliant, but I'm like, hey, I'm given some these aren't just ceremony tools, these are life tools and and even amongst each other, you know, somebody will be processing out loud and say something that's really wise that is a key to happiness or a key to peace. And I know not everybody are auditory learners, so I'm like, why are y'all not writing some of this down? And so For everyone in the future, if you hear something good and you're a and you learn in that way, I'd write it down. Yeah. Um, and let's talk about integration because the retreat ends, but then, you know, if a mom goes, the laundry, the emails, the carpools, they're all waiting back home.

20:35 And you kinda talked about the fifty percent rule that the retreat is only half of it. What do you think one pract what is the one practice or the one spiritual revelation I guess can actually bring back into everyday life that you think is most important? Yeah, so I know that this sounds sentimental, but I'm a sentimental human being. Um, most of the time people and I'm talking about scientists and doctors and athletes, about halfway towards the end of the retreat, they recognize it's all about treating people well. First treat yourself well and treat other people well. If there is anything that is preventing you from loving fully or being fully loved, figure that out and get it out of the way.

21:16 And so I really love that about our retreats that and I'm shy to say this on particularly your podcast, but it has happened multiple times where just one ceremony, moms will come out and say, I gotta go home to my kids. And I'll say, You've dedicated this time the whole week to yourself. You you don't have to run home. Your kids will be there. Um but we we get so excited about how we want to connect again and the ways in which we want to really be present. Um we we Right. All of us do this thing and maybe moms uh are included when I'm at work, I'm thinking about what I'm gonna make for dinner. When I'm at dinner, I'm thinking about what errands I need to run.

21:57 When I'm out running errands, I'm thinking about what I need to do for work. And so instead of being where we're at, we're always in the next place. And so just shift it. When I'm with my kids, I'm only gonna be with my kids. When I'm at work, I'm only going to be at work. When I'm having dinner with my partner, I'm only going to be listening and interacting with my dinner at partner, being present. And so moms get excited and sometimes they get so excited they want to leave early and go home and practice all that they've learned. I love that. Um, so what do you think is one myth about plant medicine retreat leaders that you would want to bust? Like do you guys I I feel like sometimes they're like intimidating. So would you do you know, do you guys eat pizza, binge Netflix, or is it all sage and meditation?

22:43 So all of us are human. However, this is our path. And so we don't get off retreats and then go and do something that isn't in alignment with when when we are on retreats. And so, but I will say this: our retreats are vegan plus eggs. And so a lot of people assume that we are vegans. And because a lot of uh yogis started going into the Plant medicine path, people started assuming that plant medicine was a vegan path and it's not. In the South, in the communities, they eat meat, medicine men and half of the medicine women I know are meat eaters. now they respect their meat, they respect where it came from.

23:25 Frequently they source their own meat. And so that's one thing um that some people are surprised by that half of our team are meat eaters and the other half are vegan. Um But I I would say that I'm very proud of our teams that that we all are working on continuing the path to the highest version of ourself. It isn't, okay, we're in retreat now and then when we're off a retreat, we're different. Yeah. But we are human. Like me and my partner still have to have check ins. We still lose our patience. And it's a practice. So important. Um, so let's do a lightning round, one senten sentence each, um, s and just see the first thing that comes to mind.

24:10 So what's your favorite word when you are deep in ceremony? Mm. Oneness. Uh what is a sound in the jungle or on retreat that grounds you instantly? Lightning and thunder. Lightning's not a sound. Thunder. It makes me calm too. What is the meal that you crave afterwards? Any specific fruit? Well we have jungle fruit and so we have pineapples, mango, bananas. Yeah. So cool.

24:50 Um and what's one thing that guests always pack but they never need? Probably chapstick. It is humid down where we're at. Um openly I don't know everything that our guests pack, but um one woman came to Samuel and she goes, I forgot my chapstick. I was like, you don't need anything. Need nothing. And so I would almost say people need nothing. We think we need all these things and we don't. Mm-hmm. So true. Um, what do you think one lesson from plants or from nature that is that has made you kinder, better human being yourself? That everybody is doing the best that they can with the cards they were dealt.

25:35 I think sometimes we've heard everyone's doing the best that they can, and they're like, mmm, I think they could do a little better. But when I add with the cards they were dealt, we recognize that all of us were dealt different cards. Some of us were dealt trauma from childhood. Some of us were dealt really challenging relationships in our teenage years. Some of us were dealt these different hands. And so To me that we're all doing the best that we can with the cards we were dealt. Yeah, it's so true. Everyone has such a different upbringing and we're we are. That's what I always say. We're doing the best we can. Um, so how about for the moms who are listening who maybe aren't gonna make it to Costa Rica, they're broke, they're busy, they're skeptical, whatever.

26:17 Um, you know, they may be thinking, What's one thing that maybe she could do tonight to start? Yeah. So our our health, our mental health, emotional health, physical health starts in our gut. And so with just that specific question, I would say eliminate as much processed foods as you can and you will miraculously start feeling incredible. And if I could add one extra answer because I am an advocate of plant medicine. if you have access to um even microdosing is something that you could start adding a plant medicine into your life to start that connection with nature, with plants, with medicine.

26:57 And so I'm an advocate of spreading magic around the world. So like how does one access microdosing? Like I would be like I don't even know where to start with that. Like where do you go? What do you look for? Is it online? Is it a doctor that you would go to in your area? how do how would they look for that? Yeah, one thing that I love is that this is starting to like spread and be more and more open. Um so I would start looking it up and then this is something that and I know this sounds very esoteric, but I'm an esoteric person. Once you start putting um something into the field, it'll come back to you. And so um one, I would look it up online and then ask some humans and I think that it will will come to you.

27:44 So fun. All right, so let's do one last question. If you could put a billboard up on every major highway that every busy, exhausted parent drives by, what five words do you think that it would say? Say, just breathe. You are amazing. Oh, I love that. So perfect. And I feel like that is a perfect place to end it. So thank you, Sarah. Thank you for being so open and for answering all those questions, especially the safety one, because I know moms needed to hear that. So thank you so much for coming on and talking all about this.

28:25 thank you so much for having me. I I can feel your energy from other sides of the country. Thank you for having me. And thank you to all of your guests. If you want, I just want to make the offer that the first step with us is a complimentary call. And so I know that call, even if we're not a good fit for you, or vice versa, the call is beneficial. There it's packed of information and direction. And so look us up, beholdretreats.com and we'd love to see you in Costa Rica or Mexico or Portugal. Yeah, I learned so much um just researching about what you guys do and it was just s something that I had no idea about. So I always think that's really cool when I have guests on that I am not informed about and to learn and kind of selfishly ask my own questions, but also get some bigger questions answered as well.

29:16 So thank you for being so open and honest about all that. Always and if you ever invite me back we'll dig a little deeper. We'll get more into the into the psychedelic part of the the visionary medicine. Yeah. Yes, you're gonna have to come back and talk about that because I am also very interested in that aspect of it. So um thank you so much. Um and to the listeners, thank you so much for spending time with us today on The Running Wine Mom. don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with a mom who needs to hear it. You can follow me on Instagram at the running wine mom underscore. And Sarah, I know you mentioned where you could find, but if you could remind our listeners where they could find you, that would be great.

29:58 Yeah. We were at beholdretreats dot com and then if you just put in behold retreats, you'll find us in all the ways in Instagram or Facebook, LinkedIn, but beholdretreats dot com is a good place to start. Awesome. Thank you again for joining today. To the listeners, remember you are strong, you are capable, and you are all amazing. Until next time, keep running, keep sipping, maybe keep microdosing, and keep embracing the joy of motherhood. Cheers, and I'll be back next Tuesday. Thanks, Sarah. That was so cool. I loved learning about all of that. Yeah, thank you. I'm gonna stop it. you as well. You were